... regarding Emergent Post-Modernism, courtesy of Fightingforthefaith.com .

 

Rob Willmann has done us all a great service by transcribing the interview of Doug Pagitt (one of the head emergent types) by Todd Friel (host of Way of the Master Radio).

You can go to his post and read the transcript, or find a link to an MP3 thing so you can listen to the interview HERE.

Tim Challies will be hosting a weekly study on John Owen's  Of the Mortification of Sin in Believers.   The idea is to read a chapter and then if you want to, comment on what you have read in the comments section, or just read what others have said.   I'm having a "blonde" (green?) moment and can't recall how much Tim is planning to write on the chapters, or if it will be more of an open thread thing.

Here's the link to the announcement post..  I've already ordered the book that he recommended (which has 3 Owen books; we're only reading one for this study).

The introduction to TTW is a discussion of the nature of truth, and the necessity of fighting for it.  The emergent church attack the idea of truth (not a new thing) and think that true humility means not believing you know the truth.   Instead, God's word tells us that truth begins with God - He determines what is true and reveals what is true.  He gave us minds that would be able to understand truth.  He gave us Scripture.  We can know the truth and grow in truth.  "... He sent  Christ, the very embodiment of truth itself, as the culmination of divine revelation (Hebrews 1:1-3) (p.xix) .   There is ultimate truth which is an objective reality. (p. xx) 

2nd and 3rd John, and Jude, all very short letters, deal with the importance of fighting for the truth.  I like what Daniel Chew, whose post I linked to yesterday, pointed out  - we are all called to contend for the faith, whether we want to or not. 

Chapter 1 is called "Can Truth Survive in a Postmodern Society?"  In this chapter Dr. MacArthur gives a Biblical definition of truth, and spends more time on the concept of truth.  He gives a brief history of how philosophers have sought to understand truth apart from God, ending in postmodernity.  There is a bit of "logic" discussed.   One thing I found interesting is that Dr MacArthur states that logic is not something Greek that goes against Hebrew thought. (p14)  

I think I am going to have to re-read the section on propositions as I do not have a firm grip on some of the ideas he discusses.  That is, although I agree with him, I want to learn to better articulate what I believe and why and currently my familiarity of the terms involved is still too basic for my liking.  He points out that postmodernists are self-defeating when they want to reject propositions ("A proposition is an idea framed as a logical statement that affirms or denies something, and it is expressed insuch a way that it must be either true or false." italics in original, p. 14) because you can't even argue against using propositions without using propositions themselves. 

I am going to have to guard against writing and quoting too much.  My idea for these reviews was to just talk a bit about the ideas of the chapters and write a few of my reactions to them.   Right now I would like to type out a fairly long quote - three paragraphs!  Instead I will try to be brief (ha).  Dr MacArthur points out that truth is not simply a set of propositions, and faith is more than assent to those propositions.  "Authentic faith in Christ involves love for His person and wilingness to surrender to His authority." (p15)  More than our mind is involved in faith - our heart and will are engaged as well.  I will go ahead and quote the last paragraph of the group:

On the other hand, truth simply cannot survive if stripped of propositional content.  while it is quite true that believing the truth entails more than the assent of the human intellect to certain propositions, it is equally true that authentic faith never involves anything less.  To reject the propositional content of the gospel is to forfeit saving faith, period. (p. 15)

I have long noticed that many folk today want to avoid propositions and statements of fact when it comes to faith.  Yet they live out other areas of their lives in subjection to the rules of logic.  When discussing spiritual matters then they begin saying there is no way to know the truth.  When I've listened to them saying this, in my own limited discussions with people, or in simply listening to others talking with postmoderns, I get the feeling that this is all just a smokescreen to avoid dealing with the truth.  I wonder if they really believe what they say they believe.  It just sounds so dumb!  Then again, Scripture informs us that unbelievers' minds are blinded, so maybe they do believe that there is no absolute truth.  

The final sections in the chapter are "Uncertainty is the New Truth" and "War in the Church."  In the final section MacArthur points out we are obligated to participate in the war for the faith, and that we are both ambassadors and soldiers.

 

edited November 17 2007

Since I'm reading J. MacArthur's The Truth War and wanting to blog about it, when I found this post by Daniel Chew I thought it would be worthwhile linking to it. 

Loving God in contending for the faith

Here's how he starts:

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. (Jude 4)

The task of contending for the faith has been entrusted to all Christians, regardless of whether they want it or not.


That first comment of his gave me several minutes of thought right there.

I'm reading The Truth War by John MacArthur.   I'm thinking of posting some of my thoughts on it as I read.  I'm in chapter 3 right now but I will backtrack a bit when I do the first post on it.   Right now I'm battling a bad cold and just want to go back to bed!

I'm not likely to have deep thoughts so I will likely just put up a few quotes and perhaps make a comment or two when I really get going on it.

For those who don't know of this book, it discusses the need to "earnestly contend for the faith" (and uses the whole book of Jude) in the context of the  "emergent conversation."

A couple of observations here that I was able to think of on my own (at least one of which Dr MacA also has and certainly articulates a lot better!) is that all this postmodern and emergent stuff don't seem to be very new.  Postmodernism is said to have really started in 1987 (is that the year?  It's when the Berlin wall came down, which event people now say symbolized the end of Modernity) and I have read that it ended in the late 90's (what's replacing it now?).   But the idea of "there are different truths and your truth may not be my truth" and the dislike of applying logic or even basic thinking has definitely been around a long time!  I don't remember all the 60's but I do some of it and that kind of (non-) thinking was definitely around then.   And the emergent stuff - much of what I am reading about now seems to have been around in various places and in various modes, from ages ago!  It seems to be nothing more at its heart than what the serpent asked Eve,  "did God really say?"  

Off to get some soup in a cup and hide in my bed.  Schoolwork for the younger kids is going to be pretty basic today - but we have gotten some things done!

We sang this last night at our new church.  David and I were both struck by it and after the service read through it again individually.  That is one of the benefits of hymnbooks - you can spend some time meditating on the words as they don't disappear off a screen!  Neither of us had sung this hymn before, although we've been Christians for many years.  I had read one of the couplets before, and it was good to see it in context.

Exhortation to Prayer 

What various hindrances we meet
In coming to a mercy seat!
Yet who that knows the worth of prayer,
But wishes to be often there?

Prayer makes the darken'd cloud withdraw,
Prayer climbs the ladder Jacob saw,
Gives exercise to faith and love,
Brings every blessing from above.

Restraining prayer, we cease to fight;
Prayer makes the Christian's armour bright;
And Satan trembles when he sees
The weakest saint upon his knees.

While Moses stood with arms spread wide,
Success was found on Israel's side;
But when through weariness they fail'd,
That moment Amalek prevail'd.

Have you no words? Ah, think again,
Words flow apace when you complain,
And fill your fellow-creature's ear
With the sad tale of all your care.

Were half the breath thus vainly spent
To heaven in supplication sent,
Your cheerful song would oftener be,
"Hear what the Lord has done for me."

You can read a short biography of William Cowper written by John Piper here .

These are videos about evangelism and how we can overcome our fears about it.

Part 1

Part 2

Brian Thornton has an excellent post which deals with beliefs about presenting the gospel.  He shares about a book he has had for a long time,  about increasing Sunday School attendance (it looked like it was adult classes in view) which has implications for sharing the gospel in general.  The attitude was " you have to love them into the kingdom."   Brian gives some very good logical conclusions to the beliefs that much of the evangelical world holds. 

One of the things that grabbed me from the quotes from the book was about having the "gift of party."    I guess that goes along with having "the gift of flower arranging."  (I know people have "gifts and talents" but we seem to be elevating some natural or cultivated, God-given talents, to spiritual gifts, which are a different thing altogether.)

You can read his post, Church Growth Gobbly Gook here.

Some of you readers know that I've been going through a bit of a hard time lately.  Last night I was really discouraged, wondering if I was really wrong, and maybe the pragmatic approach was OK after all.  (among other things)

This morning, I sat in bed and started looking through a new Bible that I had got from Rod and Staff, that came on Tuesday (a KJV).  I was going through the pages, trying to exercise the binding a bit by opening out the pages in different sections.   As I did, I read a bit off the pages now and again.

At one point, my eyes fell on Numbers 20:11, "And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice:  and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also." 

If you don't know the story, I encourage you to check out the rest of the chapter.  Moses had previously been instructed to strike a rock which he did, and God  provided water from the rock for the Israelites who were wandering in the desert.   Now they were complaining again about a lack of water and after hearing from God Moses was to gather the people and speak to the rock and God would again provide water.  Moses did not do what he was told (do read the whole story) and struck the rock twice instead.

Now, water did come from the rock, as before.  In fact it came abundantly.  The people drank, and there was water for their animals as well.  God was merciful and provided for His people, even though Moses was disobedient.  Yet in the next verse, verse 12, we see that God was very displeased at Moses and pronounced a severe judgment on him, one that I would imagine would be a grief to Moses all the rest of his days.  After all he had done, all he had learned and seen, Moses would not be allowed to enter the promised land because of his disobedience in the matter of speaking to versus striking the rock.

I noted that many people were helped.  They were given what they needed to live.  According to the pragmatic approach so common in so many Christians, wasn't that a good thing, and did it matter how things were done?  Yet God was not going to let the disobedience of Moses go unnoticed and unpunished. 

I had "happened" upon that passage just by trying to gently break in the binding of my new Bible.  I felt encouraged, that no, pragmatism without obedience is not acceptable to a holy God.

I then turned to my regular Bible, and my daily reading schedule.   The next Psalm I was to read was Psalm 99, which first extols God's greatness and other attributes.  Then come verses 6, 7, and 8: 

6 Moses and Aaron were among his priests,
   Samuel also was among those who called upon his name.
   They called to the LORD, and he answered them.
7 In the pillar of the cloud he spoke to them;
   they kept his testimonies
   and the statute that he gave them.
8 O LORD our God, you answered them;
   you were a forgiving God to them,
   but an avenger of their wrongdoings.

Verse 8 ties in so much with what I had just been reading earlier - I read that God forgave these men, but still avenged their wrongdoings. 

God demands obedience.  Why do some think that as long as many people are helped somehow, that a lack of obedience is OK?

 

 

corrected typo on "severe" 5/10/07