I'm thinking about elders, but also about teachers. 

James 3:1

1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

That one was from the NASB.

I'm going to be a bit vague here because I don't want to sound accusatory toward anyone.  We see clearly in I Timothy the requirements for an elder.   I wonder what ages the children mentioned in verse 4 are meant to be?  I see using a Bible help (Crosswalk.com, which provides Strongs numbers and definition) that the word is teknon.  It's the same word, I see, in Titus where Paul gives other instruction as to what sort of man should be an elder.  Titus 1:5-10  but I'll only copy out verse 6, which has the word teknon for children in it:

v6  namely, if any man be above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion.

It looks like from verse 10 that the part about rebellion refers to the man, not the children so we must not build too much on that.

But, we are at least talking about children who believe - who are of an age when they can believe so it is reasonable to assume that they are not real young.  I don't know enough to know if young men who were of bar mitzvah age were then no longer considered children. 

Am I assuming too much to think that teenagers would be included in the I Timothy and Titus passages?  Or are we limited to children of ages say, 3 - 13 only?  These are the ones who are to be in the prospective elder's control?  Do older children count or not?

I am wondering about all this when I think about some well-known teachers in the evangelical arena.

What kinds of requirements should they have to meet?  They are not necessarily functioning as elders in a local church and I have to say even the plain requirements for elders are not always adhered to in local churches, but do we have any requirements for the travelling teachers who suggest to us the best way to raise our children?  Or teachers of any part of our Christian life?



I attended a meeting on Monday night that was OK as far as it went.  But I just feel that we should be getting that kind of (very basic, to be honest) information from the pulpit as well as from the older members of our churches (Titus 2), and indeed we should be receiving even more specific and hopeful information than just love and show acceptance to your teens and just hang on because it will inevitably be a rough time. 

I know there will be hormonal moments and that the teen years are simply a continuation of the training we started with our children many years ago, so I don't expect perfection.  But I have from my own life, my husband's life. the testimony of many of my peers, and of some of the children of the older Christians that I know,the knowledge that teens do not always go off the rails.  When I see large families being raised and notice the teens are pleasant, decent, people growing in their faith in Christ - not without faults, and not without some difficult times, but definitely without the heartache so many parents face - and then turning into decent adult Christians and citizens of their communities I take notice.  And when one child out of 6 or 7 goes "wrong", it doesn't discourage me as much as when one child out of a family of two children is a tearaway.  So what are these families doing right?

I'm a little disheartened when evangelicals are still -for over 20 years now - are being told - that there just isn't much one can do, and when a whole audience - who I know are not necessarily all Christians (and therefore I admit won't have or even know of God's standards) , are told that they have done the best they could do, so shouldn't  feel that their unruly,difficult youths are their fault. 

Have we all really done the best we could?  I know that I have certainly failed - and this in the context of very actively trying to live according to God's instructions in every aspect of my life as each area is revealed to me in Scripture (it's a journey!).  So those parents who chose material goods over raising their children themselves and stuck their children in daycare (NB I am not including here those parents who truly had to do so, just to make sure there was a roof over their heads and simple food on the table.), and before and after school care and let their older children roam in malls or city centers,  basically being raised by the TV, computer and peers (of course not approved by the parents, if the parents even met them), these parents have no reason to regret anything?   Is there no room for improvement for any of us?

I repeat that the suggestions were good as far as they went.  Love your children.  Show your acceptance of them (different than love according to the speaker).  Have fun and laugh with them.  A few good more nitty-gritty suggestions like keeping the computer in a high-traffic or visible area, not separate internet access computers in children's rooms.  But I am saddened when these blanket, fairly basic things are all some Christian parents encounter by way of teaching.  And no hope is given for expecting happy, pleasant, Christian teenagers at all.  (if you get one then you were just lucky to get a compliant child is the feeling)
I agree with Mary Pride here (back to her again!) - if I remember correctly - that the best way to catch fish is to go to the person with fish on his line - not to the one who has fancy gizmos and great theories.   With many other homeschoolers, and even many parents who don't homeschool but believe they have the responsibility and power to affect their children for good, I agree that one of the best ways to learn about Godly child raising - including teens - is to look at those families who have grown children who exemplify what you want to see in your own children.  That and the Bible.  Sounds simple enough.   And I see the results - not 100% perfect, but still very good - in those who dare try.


Please leave a comment!  I'd like to hear from you!

One thing that spoke quite strongly to me was the thought that the children would cope with the moderate level of ungodliness that one family was experiencing via the TV, but that they would not cope well with an unstable marriage.  Mrs Pearl points out again that Adam did not need a conscience when God made a helper for him - he already had one. 

I like this paragraph:

"I am not suggesting that you should have lower standards.  In fact, your husband obviously should have higher standards, but your nagging and criticism have the opposite effect of producing righteousness.  Ideally, if you could hold your standards, hold your tongue, and hold your man, in time you might be able to put forth an appeal to him that does not offend."  p67

I find for myself I need to be careful of the Christian material I read or listen to.  There are a lot of good teachers out there, and good materials, but I find that some of them, or at least reading or listening too much to them, can cause me to become discontent with how things are in our family. I have realized - although I do not perfectly live it out - that allowing God to work in David and our family, and allowing David to be the head, means that I need to not be so influenced by what other men say a family should be (although nothing is wrong with high standards and learning how others do things) and should learn to be content, and be a happy wife and mother in the circumstances I find myself.  I'm not trying to say anything critical of my own husband here.  But many of you will recognize how we women can get caught up by the messages of "visionaries" (more to come on that) and fail to appreciate the good things we do have while we focus on all the seeming "lacks" in our family life.



Chapter 8

You can read all or most (I haven't compared) of chapter 8 here.

Mrs Pearl and her daughter worked on this chapter together.  They feel that there are 3 main types of men.  Here commenceth all the "I don't believe in labelling people" etc etc.  Well, I agree it's not good to put people in boxes and keep them there, but if descriptions of types of people are helpful in living our lives, then we can use them.  What we should not do it use them to hurt others or to indicate that they automatically have bad habits or attributes or that they cannot change.    I find it handy to have church names - even denominational ones - when I am thinking of visiting a church.  I know that certain denominations do not reflect what I believe to be the truth, so I avoid them.  I realize that not every Baptist is going to be a sweet, on-fire-for-the-Lord Christian, but I know that the general beliefs of typical Baptist churches (if holding to the statements of the denominations) are mostly compatible with our beliefs so I won't be too worried about bringing my children along when we visit one.   So labels although not 100% accurate are helpful to some degree.  (My rant about churches which refuse to label themselves will be reserved for another day.)

Uh... back to the subject at hand.  If you can read this blog then there is no real reason except for time to not read the original chapter, so please do so if you have time.

Briefly, Mrs Pearl and Mrs Anast divide men up into three categories - Mr Command, Mr Visionary, and Mr Steady.   They say that the perfect man would be a perfect balance of all these types, and that each type expresses one of the three sides of God's nature.  I'm not sure how theologically sound that is - I'm not saying it's not, but I'm not saying it is either.  It's not too far off, and I do understand how each of these types would express one aspect of God, but I don't know that God only has three sides to His nature.  I think of the Trinity as being more than a "side" of God and can't really picture these types of men as being reflections of each of the members of the Trinity. 

However, as descriptions of men, they are fairly useful and I think it is possible to slot different men that I know, into one of the categories.  Brother X is a Mr Visionary, Y's husband is definitely a Mr Command Man, that brother over there seems to be a Mr Steady.  And my own husband is... maybe I'll reveal that later. 

The authors say that most men are combinations of the three types but usuallly are stronger in one.  That is probably true for most men. 

I asked David to read this chapter, to get his opinion of it.   Briefly, his view is that like all other categorizations, it is useful as far as it goes.  It can be helpful to understand the tendencies and mindsets of different types of people.  He felt it might have been more helpful if each section had been divided into the "good" points and the "bad" points of each character.   I agree with this. 

Some who have had strong negative reactions to this book, or at least this chapter (and I feel many take issue with the whole book after only reading this one chapter, perhaps also already having a negative opinion of the Pearls), seem to focus comments on the negative aspects of Mr Command Man, stating that the authors are saying these are some of God's attributes too.  I feel that if the characteristics of each type could have been put into sections, saying, here are the positives, or how a godly man puts his attributes into action, and over here are the negatives, or how the attributes can be used in a fleshly manner, it may have been a bit clearer to people that the authors are not saying that these negative things are not aspects of God's nature.

Now, to leave the issues of style and go on to how this chapter affects people, I'm finding that many women - especially those married to "Mr Steadys" - are finding this chapter very helpful in increasing their understanding and appreciation of their husbands.  I look at the types of men, and think of men I know who exemplify them, and at the wives who have adjusted well to them, and can see the wisdom of much of what this chapter teaches.  It's definitely worth some thoughtful reading and reflection.

I'll jump back to my own husband.  We feel he is a Mr Steady - with a little Mr Visionary (the science part).  You can see how someone who is a typical geeky scientist type (said in all affection)  could be that way.  Where the types fall down here is that my dh does not enjoy small talk at all, nor is he a "people person" (like a Mr Steady supposedly does and is) although he does not dislike people.  With the right sort of person he enjoys conversation.  Many scientists would be the same so I wonder if there is a large subset of the Steady/Visionary mix.    However we do know some scientists who are more of the "Mr Command Man" type, again with the Visionary mixed in.  Funnily, although they are not "supposed" to like casual chat, they do!

So, like all generalizations, they are useful for a broad-brush picture, and helpful in understanding a little more people not like oneself.   DH and I also think that the "four temperaments" categorizations are helpful to a degree - if you are familiar with those you might have fun trying to compare them to the 3 types of men presented in this chapter.  Perhaps there are other ways to look at people.  

I found the chapter interesting, and fairly helpful and that it promoted more appreciation for my spouse.  Like with all teaching, I tend to eat the sweet bits, and spit out the seeds  -because any fruit made by humans is probably going to have some!!

PS - I wrote this off and on throughout the day - I don't want anyone thinking I was glued to the computer the whole time!!!

It is almost painful to hold your tongue instead of using it as a lash when hubby does something stupid (and he will).  It is uncomfortable to act in faith, and keep quiet after making an appeal, and let your husband go ahead with a plan that seems sure to end in disaster.  (But what is worse, for example, moving to another city to start a business that fails, or to emasculate your husband emotionally and spiritually by not letting him follow his dreams?)  Or persisting in following a dream that you have but that your husband does not - it is hard to let our dreams and visions go, but if they are of God, they will come to pass.  We do not need to bulldoze our husbands down to see them fulfilled. 

It is painful to wait.  It is painful to wait to see your husband change while as newlyweds you are both knocking the sharp corners of selfishness off each other.  It is painful to have your own corners knocked off too!  It is painful to wait to see a husband come to the Lord, or to return to the spiritual man he was before he somehow got off track.  

It is painful to live with a selfish, sinning man.  But allowing ourselves to be selfish sinners too, with the attitude of "I'll do right when he does" ain't going to cut it.  How on earth do we persuade ourselves that withholding right actions because our partner fails will lead to a happy marriage?

I'll finish this part of my post, the thoughts on chapter 5, with some quotes I liked:
"It doesn't take a good man, or even a saved man, for a woman to have a heavenly marriage, but it does take a woman willing to honor God by being the kind of wife God intended."

"Note that what God commands a woman to do does not hinge on the man loving his wife as Christ loved the Church.  If it did, there is not one single husband who ever lived and breathed who would be worthy of his wife's submission or reverence.  Each of them, the man and the woman, has been given their own directive from God with a model or pattern to attain to.  What God said stands, regardless of the man's goodness or the apparent lack thereof."


Chapter 6 The Beginning of Wisdom

"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."  (Psalm 111:10; Proverbs 9:10; and Proverbs 1:7 has "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge")
Debi begins the chapter by arguing that the word "fear" means just that - not some watered-down meaning that is so popular in these times.  She also reminds us of the law of sowing and reaping - that actions do have consequences.   She talks of the difficulties of convincing many older women of becoming the helpmeet God says they should be and that she came to understand the wisdom of Titus 2:3-5 where the older women are told to instruct the younger women.  Younger women need to be warned of some of the dangers of disobeying God's commands to them.

I think she is right, sometimes we humans do respond better from the fear of some negative consequence than we do just when we are appealed to, to do right (my words, not hers).

In this chapter Debi comments on a woman trying to be her husband's conscience, instead of his help-meet, and the dangers of getting so "spiritual" that she neglects what God plainly says in His word.  

That is seen so often, not just in marriage matters, but in many Christians (and not just Pentecostal ones or others who believe in special spiritual gifts) - the idea that what God has said in His word does not count or does not apply to themselves because they have some sort of "deeper understanding."      This so-called deeper or more spiritual understanding usually is promoted by those teachers and preachers who dismiss much of the New Testament teachings as culturally bound and irrelevant for Christians for some reason.    In recounting a very sad story about a woman who pursued her spirituality while neglecting the clear commands in Scripture in regard to her husband, Debi comments:

"She was totally deceived into thinking that her female intuition, sensitivity, and passions were spirituality.  She had no idea that she was a woman in total rebellion against God.  King Saul of Israel offered sacrifices to God, but he did so in disregards to the clearly revealed will of God. He thought the end justified the means.  His motive was to glorify God, but God said his religious service was rebellion equal to witchcraft (I Samuel 15:23).  When a woman attempts to live for God contrary to his Word, her "spirituality" is equal to witchcraft, because she is attempting to "divine" the will of God in total disregard to his clear written words.  God calls such a woman "Jezebel."

~~~~~~~~

I'd like to back up here, to comment on fear and the idea of consequences to our actions.  I find this idea gets very little credibility at least in most circles I've been a part of lately.  The idea that God might execute some judgment before THE DAY, or chastise anyone for sin in this life, in any other way than "the Holy Spirit's conviction" is given short shrift by most.   We have to be cautious against labelling difficulties or tragedy in someone else's life as the judgment or discipline of God, but I feel we must be willing to examine ourselves and see if things in our lives might not be from the hand of God to correct us.

Here is another quote: "No woman has ever been happy and fulfilled who neglected to obey God in regard to her role as a help meet.  As you read the following example (the sad story mentioned earlier - KB), you will recall some woman you know who is in her forties and has a few "emotional issues."  Her excuse might be menopause, but you will find that bitterness is the real source.  A hormonal change doesn't change a woman's soul; it just tears down her carefully constructed defences against expressing the carefully guarded content of her heart."   Debi speaks more about practicing bitterness toward the end of the chapter. 

As I thought about it, I remember several women I know who I believe experienced either emotional or physical problems due to bitterness.  I remember one woman, who snapped at her family that it was good that she had a period, because then she got an excuse to say what she really felt (about their lacks or faults).  Her family joked about it a little bit, but in truth this dear woman has not let past hurts go and they still run her life as of the last time I spoke with her.   I fear her bitterness, while not causing the disease she later got, certainly contributes to the stress which exascerbates it.

Well, that's about it for me.  I am not sure I will be able to write so much in future weeks as we will be doing school again, but I will try to write something worthwhile about other chapters if I can.  Otherwise I'll keep schtum!

Usually ds3 and his little sister want to paint picture after picture - and they did do a few today - but knowing that it was going to be for only 30 minutes made it a lot easier on me.  After 30 minutes we cleared up, with no griping or anything.  Those bottle paints sure are a boon too - I had very little to clean up.  And as it was so pleasant, and I know now that there is an end in sight when we paint, I am much more willing to do it again, as opposed to when it was some long, open-ended affair.